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	<title>Comments on: Language Learning: Grammar or Not?</title>
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	<link>http://languagegeek.net/2007/06/15/language-learning-grammar-or-not/</link>
	<description>Just blogging about my language geekery.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://languagegeek.net/2007/06/15/language-learning-grammar-or-not/#comment-18114</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thom,

Nicely said. I also tried the Antimoon approach for a while, and ultimately I hit the same problem: the method made me frustated and annoyed. Sure, I was learning - I was memorizing the sentences I'd put into my SRS app. And that was it. I didn't see any real gains in my knowledge of the language outside of the sentences I entered. 

Perhaps I wasn't patient enough with it, but I figure if I can make steady progress with my ways, I might as well stick to them. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thom,</p>
<p>Nicely said. I also tried the Antimoon approach for a while, and ultimately I hit the same problem: the method made me frustated and annoyed. Sure, I was learning - I was memorizing the sentences I&#8217;d put into my SRS app. And that was it. I didn&#8217;t see any real gains in my knowledge of the language outside of the sentences I entered. </p>
<p>Perhaps I wasn&#8217;t patient enough with it, but I figure if I can make steady progress with my ways, I might as well stick to them. <img src='http://languagegeek.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Thom</title>
		<link>http://languagegeek.net/2007/06/15/language-learning-grammar-or-not/#comment-18082</link>
		<dc:creator>Thom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagegeek.net/2007/06/15/language-learning-grammar-or-not/#comment-18082</guid>
		<description>This article is pretty old, but I've just discovered your blog and I want to comment on this.

I am a moderately fluent speaker of German and have recently begun studying Swedish. Initially, I tried the antimoon-style approach, because I'd always wanted to do it from scratch and see how things went. It's not that it didn't work per se... but without being consistently immersed (which is not something I could do), I don't see how it can really replace grammar study. Even children learn grammar in their native language--or at least, they have it corrected. "You mean 'Billy and I went to the store.'"

When I consider what are now seemingly simple topics like two-way prepositions in German, it seems like it would have been incredibly difficult to figure out just from context. First, you have to see a given word enough times with each article to figure out that those articles all apply to the same gender. der Mann, dem Mann, den Mann, des Mannes. Otherwise, you might see 'der Mann' in one place and 'dem Tisch' in another and think that they're two separate genders. Then, after you've figured out that 'den Mann' and 'dem Mann' are both valid, you have to see a given preposition used enough times to figure out exactly what context calls for which--a process that, without the level of input experienced by native speakers, may never be completed.

Unless you're paying VERY close attention, the difference between "Es steht auf dem Tisch" and "Ich lege es auf den Tisch" will likely be overlooked, as well. And yes, if you hear it ENOUGH, you may just be repeating those stock phrases. But if you try to modify them and say "Ich lege es auf das Bett," you may be just as likely to say "den Bett." After all, it's "Es liegt auf dem Bett," just like "auf dem Tisch." See what I'm saying?

I've concluded that grammar study is good and useful as an accessory, though not necessarily as the focus of your studies. My current approach to Swedish is to read read read, but occasionally consult a grammar text where things seem unclear or just to pick up tidbits here and there when the fancy strikes me, so to speak. I've come to believe that the most important thing of all is to just stay interested and excited no matter what--and the antimoon method left me frustrated and annoyed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is pretty old, but I&#8217;ve just discovered your blog and I want to comment on this.</p>
<p>I am a moderately fluent speaker of German and have recently begun studying Swedish. Initially, I tried the antimoon-style approach, because I&#8217;d always wanted to do it from scratch and see how things went. It&#8217;s not that it didn&#8217;t work per se&#8230; but without being consistently immersed (which is not something I could do), I don&#8217;t see how it can really replace grammar study. Even children learn grammar in their native language&#8211;or at least, they have it corrected. &#8220;You mean &#8216;Billy and I went to the store.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>When I consider what are now seemingly simple topics like two-way prepositions in German, it seems like it would have been incredibly difficult to figure out just from context. First, you have to see a given word enough times with each article to figure out that those articles all apply to the same gender. der Mann, dem Mann, den Mann, des Mannes. Otherwise, you might see &#8216;der Mann&#8217; in one place and &#8216;dem Tisch&#8217; in another and think that they&#8217;re two separate genders. Then, after you&#8217;ve figured out that &#8216;den Mann&#8217; and &#8216;dem Mann&#8217; are both valid, you have to see a given preposition used enough times to figure out exactly what context calls for which&#8211;a process that, without the level of input experienced by native speakers, may never be completed.</p>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re paying VERY close attention, the difference between &#8220;Es steht auf dem Tisch&#8221; and &#8220;Ich lege es auf den Tisch&#8221; will likely be overlooked, as well. And yes, if you hear it ENOUGH, you may just be repeating those stock phrases. But if you try to modify them and say &#8220;Ich lege es auf das Bett,&#8221; you may be just as likely to say &#8220;den Bett.&#8221; After all, it&#8217;s &#8220;Es liegt auf dem Bett,&#8221; just like &#8220;auf dem Tisch.&#8221; See what I&#8217;m saying?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve concluded that grammar study is good and useful as an accessory, though not necessarily as the focus of your studies. My current approach to Swedish is to read read read, but occasionally consult a grammar text where things seem unclear or just to pick up tidbits here and there when the fancy strikes me, so to speak. I&#8217;ve come to believe that the most important thing of all is to just stay interested and excited no matter what&#8211;and the antimoon method left me frustrated and annoyed.</p>
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