Comments on: More Exposure, Less Study? http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/ Just blogging about my language geekery. Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:25:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Ramses http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-16298 Ramses Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:47:41 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-16298 Interesting, I was planning on writing a post regarding dropping grammar class as well (for me that's not quite possible, as it's part of my majoring program so I *have* to attend at least 80% of them. Luckily they're going to assign a new professor to our grammar class (a native speaker) so I should get some 'normal' exposure out of it). About the input: I don't know what kind of job you have, but maybe there are possibilities to squize in some German? Think of podcasts (maybe even those for natives, depending on your level) or just listening tot German music. While being on vacation I found it nice to just listen to audio of movies. When travelling I convert some DVD's to PSP/iPod format so I can watch/listen them on the go. Interesting, I was planning on writing a post regarding dropping grammar class as well (for me that’s not quite possible, as it’s part of my majoring program so I *have* to attend at least 80% of them. Luckily they’re going to assign a new professor to our grammar class (a native speaker) so I should get some ‘normal’ exposure out of it).

About the input: I don’t know what kind of job you have, but maybe there are possibilities to squize in some German? Think of podcasts (maybe even those for natives, depending on your level) or just listening tot German music. While being on vacation I found it nice to just listen to audio of movies. When travelling I convert some DVD’s to PSP/iPod format so I can watch/listen them on the go.

]]> By: Paul Rees http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-16284 Paul Rees Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:46:10 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-16284 Ramses thank you for your advice and encouragement. Since I wrote the comment above I have decided to stop attending grammar classes for the moment. I wrote about that decison here http://madam.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/no-more-classes-for-2008-converstation-only/. Interestingly all the German native speakers (except my German teacher) I know have encouraged me to drop the classes. 10-15 hours per day - wow. I am serious, but I simply don't have that much time in one day. I have to work and that makes me too tired for massive amounts of study. 1-2 hours per day is realistic for me and I know that is way more time than my fellow students at the grammar class put in. Ramses thank you for your advice and encouragement. Since I wrote the comment above I have decided to stop attending grammar classes for the moment. I wrote about that decison here http://madam.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/no-more-classes-for-2008-converstation-only/.

Interestingly all the German native speakers (except my German teacher) I know have encouraged me to drop the classes.

10-15 hours per day - wow. I am serious, but I simply don’t have that much time in one day. I have to work and that makes me too tired for massive amounts of study. 1-2 hours per day is realistic for me and I know that is way more time than my fellow students at the grammar class put in.

]]> By: Ramses http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-16283 Ramses Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:32:25 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-16283 Paul, may I give you an advice? Here it comes: quit the grammar study! Really. As you pointed out, it avoids you producing stuff. Although I prefer input before even thinking about output, you should be able to express yourself well given the amount of time you've spent with German so far (more than a year). Yes, I've been studying grammar but it actually only set me back because I began to think too much about it. Like you said, children don't worry about grammar (heck, they don't even know what grammar is!) but learn throught exposure. I've tried that approach (i.e. massive input, and I mean massive. Talking about 10 - 15 hours per day of listening/reading, where it could and should be more if you can and if you're serious about learning language). The point is; your brain will figure stuff out in the end. Me for example, I know loads of phrases and can combine those. I don't know <i>why</i> something works like it works, but I do know <i>how</i> it works and therefore I can speak Spanish quite fluently and with almost no mistakes (I'm still learning, but every day of massive input helps me getting better). Paul, may I give you an advice? Here it comes: quit the grammar study! Really. As you pointed out, it avoids you producing stuff. Although I prefer input before even thinking about output, you should be able to express yourself well given the amount of time you’ve spent with German so far (more than a year).

Yes, I’ve been studying grammar but it actually only set me back because I began to think too much about it. Like you said, children don’t worry about grammar (heck, they don’t even know what grammar is!) but learn throught exposure. I’ve tried that approach (i.e. massive input, and I mean massive. Talking about 10 - 15 hours per day of listening/reading, where it could and should be more if you can and if you’re serious about learning language).

The point is; your brain will figure stuff out in the end. Me for example, I know loads of phrases and can combine those. I don’t know why something works like it works, but I do know how it works and therefore I can speak Spanish quite fluently and with almost no mistakes (I’m still learning, but every day of massive input helps me getting better).

]]> By: Jess http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-16073 Jess Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:53:28 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-16073 My speaking and listening skills in my two strongest languages, Arabic and Japanese, were acquired mostly through passive exposure. When I was in the intermediate stages of learning, I spent three to four hours on Saturday or Sunday, and about 15-30 minutes each weekday actively studying. But I also spent three to four hours a day passively listening in my everyday environment. I strongly feel that this passive absorption was the main catalyst for my easy fluency and good pronunciation. Now that I have returned to the US from Japan, and am refreshing my Arabic skills after a 3 year break, I listen to my old Arabic textbook CDs and Arabic newscasts for an hour a day, on the bus while I commute. I only actively study vocabulary, grammar and reading on Saturdays for 2-3 hours. I find that even without pounding the books, I am reactivating what I know without much effort. In contrast, I spent years assaulting my brain with Spanish and French reading, grammar and vocabulary exercises, but I was never really motivated to read or listen for pleasure. I still can't speak either one worth a darn :) My speaking and listening skills in my two strongest languages, Arabic and Japanese, were acquired mostly through passive exposure. When I was in the intermediate stages of learning, I spent three to four hours on Saturday or Sunday, and about 15-30 minutes each weekday actively studying. But I also spent three to four hours a day passively listening in my everyday environment. I strongly feel that this passive absorption was the main catalyst for my easy fluency and good pronunciation.
Now that I have returned to the US from Japan, and am refreshing my Arabic skills after a 3 year break, I listen to my old Arabic textbook CDs and Arabic newscasts for an hour a day, on the bus while I commute. I only actively study vocabulary, grammar and reading on Saturdays for 2-3 hours. I find that even without pounding the books, I am reactivating what I know without much effort.
In contrast, I spent years assaulting my brain with Spanish and French reading, grammar and vocabulary exercises, but I was never really motivated to read or listen for pleasure. I still can’t speak either one worth a darn :)

]]> By: Exposure « The Lab http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15958 Exposure « The Lab Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:47:49 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15958 [...] geek”, and through that his interesting blog Language Geek. In particular I found his post More Exposure, Less Study relevant to me. I was prompted to write a comment on my feelings about this dilema. For the record, [...] [...] geek”, and through that his interesting blog Language Geek. In particular I found his post More Exposure, Less Study relevant to me. I was prompted to write a comment on my feelings about this dilema. For the record, [...]

]]> By: Paul Rees http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15957 Paul Rees Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:17:38 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15957 I am starting to think that exposure really is the key. I've been learning German since April 2007 and I have put a lot of time into studying it and listening to it. However after all that effort I can't actually say very much in German. I am happy with my level of comprehension relative to the amount of time I have been learning. My problem is that my head has gotten so caught up in the complex grammar that speaking now seems to be close to impossible. I mean, when trying to speak, by the time my head has processed the grammar, the moment is lost. I am travelling to Germany in September (for a big exposure) and I am seriously considering taking a break from active and formal studying after that trip. This is not giving up, rather an attempt to clear my head and actually learn how to speak. During this break, I would focus on conversing with my German online and offline friends, and attending German speaking social functions. Children learn to speak by exposure. As an adult learning by exposure is a much slower process, complicated by a brain that is now wired in English. Time accept this and re-wire :) I am starting to think that exposure really is the key. I’ve been learning German since April 2007 and I have put a lot of time into studying it and listening to it.

However after all that effort I can’t actually say very much in German. I am happy with my level of comprehension relative to the amount of time I have been learning.

My problem is that my head has gotten so caught up in the complex grammar that speaking now seems to be close to impossible. I mean, when trying to speak, by the time my head has processed the grammar, the moment is lost.

I am travelling to Germany in September (for a big exposure) and I am seriously considering taking a break from active and formal studying after that trip. This is not giving up, rather an attempt to clear my head and actually learn how to speak. During this break, I would focus on conversing with my German online and offline friends, and attending German speaking social functions.

Children learn to speak by exposure. As an adult learning by exposure is a much slower process, complicated by a brain that is now wired in English. Time accept this and re-wire :)

]]> By: Josh http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15806 Josh Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:11:33 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15806 Thanks all, for your continued input! :) Apparently more exposure and less study is indeed a good strategy for me to use. Thanks all, for your continued input! :) Apparently more exposure and less study is indeed a good strategy for me to use.

]]> By: Johanna http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15744 Johanna Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:22:37 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15744 When I read texts in my target languages or listen to the news I mostly don't analyze or "study" what I hear. I only look up core vocabs that I can't derive from the context and mostly I just don't bother if I don't understand 100% of everything. I think it depends on how far you've already mastered a language and what you're studying for (written exam, oral proficiency...). What I also find helpful is listening to foreign language TV even if you don't understand a single word! I helped me, when I started studying Japanese, to get accustomed to the sound and rhythm of the language. And later on, I would recognize words that I had previously heard, subconsciously, and once I actually learned them, I could remember them forever! I find it also useful to listen to podcasts and the like while doing something else and not actually concentrating on it too much, for example when I'm cleaning up my room. I feel like it still helps improve my listening skills and pronounciation. It's not important to understand any word spoken and uncover any unknown grammatical sentence structure at any given time to benefit from your learning material. Unless you want to be an expert in linguistics. ;) When I read texts in my target languages or listen to the news I mostly don’t analyze or “study” what I hear. I only look up core vocabs that I can’t derive from the context and mostly I just don’t bother if I don’t understand 100% of everything.
I think it depends on how far you’ve already mastered a language and what you’re studying for (written exam, oral proficiency…).
What I also find helpful is listening to foreign language TV even if you don’t understand a single word! I helped me, when I started studying Japanese, to get accustomed to the sound and rhythm of the language. And later on, I would recognize words that I had previously heard, subconsciously, and once I actually learned them, I could remember them forever!
I find it also useful to listen to podcasts and the like while doing something else and not actually concentrating on it too much, for example when I’m cleaning up my room. I feel like it still helps improve my listening skills and pronounciation. It’s not important to understand any word spoken and uncover any unknown grammatical sentence structure at any given time to benefit from your learning material. Unless you want to be an expert in linguistics. ;)

]]> By: Karen http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15625 Karen Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:38:30 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15625 I'm reading the Harry Potter books in Spanish - on the second right now. It's simply for pleasure - enjoying the language and just getting into the story. Other times, I study - doing grammar exercises, listening to podcasts, etc. If I study too much, I lose the joy. I’m reading the Harry Potter books in Spanish - on the second right now. It’s simply for pleasure - enjoying the language and just getting into the story. Other times, I study - doing grammar exercises, listening to podcasts, etc. If I study too much, I lose the joy.

]]> By: Ramses http://languagegeek.net/2008/06/02/more-exposure-less-study/#comment-15530 Ramses Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:22:10 +0000 http://languagegeek.net/?p=187#comment-15530 I only study actively for tests, my college year has for of those periods per year. During the week I normally watch 1 telenovela a day (40 minutes) and listen music about 3 - 4 hours a day. Next to that I do my daily SRS reps (which I DO consider as studying). I know I must invest more time, especially watching more television. So far this input worked for me like a dream, especially the combination television (without subtitles)/music/SRS reps. Input is the most important thing in learning a language. Sure, studying is great, especially in the beginner stage. But after that most things most be reached by getiing loads of input. I only study actively for tests, my college year has for of those periods per year.

During the week I normally watch 1 telenovela a day (40 minutes) and listen music about 3 - 4 hours a day. Next to that I do my daily SRS reps (which I DO consider as studying). I know I must invest more time, especially watching more television. So far this input worked for me like a dream, especially the combination television (without subtitles)/music/SRS reps.

Input is the most important thing in learning a language. Sure, studying is great, especially in the beginner stage. But after that most things most be reached by getiing loads of input.

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